G. Keenan Schneider, on The Talk Show episode 123:

With Gruber’s astute understanding of Apple’s culture as a developer, a commentator, and a fervent customer, he gave Phil all the chances he needed to be a person. He asked tough questions and bantered playfully. This wasn’t a dance, well choreographed with a slow, deliberate build that finished in a calculated climax. It was a boxing match, with two fighters whose abilities were tested, ultimately ending not in a knockout, but with each combatant giving it their all and paying respect to the other as an adept adversary.

It’s my favorite podcast episode of all time and is emblematic of what Apple has become under Tim Cook’s watch. I shouldn’t get my hopes up, but I’d love to see more interviews like this in the future.